What is your view on...

[Ana 15]

I don't get this whole 'people choose to be that way' argument. Anyone care to elaborate on what that is?

[Andy 60]

Well, I don't get that argument either. Doesn't seem to make much sense to me, I know a few gay people, and a few people who know gay people and everyone I know seems to be convinced that they were born that way, but it took them time to figure it out.

*shrug* That seems the most logical way to me.

[GI_Admiral 2]

It's,

"I wasn't born this way, but I've slowly started to realize that I'm more attracted to men."

So instead of blaming it on hormones or lack thereof, they just say that it was how they grew up. Maybe they blame it on a bad relationship or their parents or what not. Just basically everything else.

"I was abused by a man, I can't trust them anymore, so I've slowly started to be attracted to women" type things...

[Uncle Du 22]

I don't get this whole 'people choose to be that way' argument. Anyone care to elaborate on what that is?

Well, of course you can't get it, you're not gay. Some people just like the pleasure of someone the same sex, than that of an opposite, it's really simple. Some are like that, others aren't. Some just have a natural disposition towards those of the same sex. Whatever. Who gives a sith whether it's a choice or not?

[Mara 29]

Well, I don't get that argument either. Doesn't seem to make much sense to me, I know a few gay people, and a few people who know gay people and everyone I know seems to be convinced that they were born that way, but it took them time to figure it out.

*shrug* That seems the most logical way to me.

Bad example:

Like murderers. They don't start out as murderers... but then one day they actually kill someone.

[Tsl 7]

I've heard/seen more than one case of "I'm going to be gay just to piss off my uber conservative parents/ex/whatever" which lasts for a few months, a year and then suddenly they aren't gay anymore.

I think people confuse that sort of thing.

[Mara 29]

Yeah, revenge gayness isn't real gayness.

Or someone who's straight thinks someone of the same sex is kinda attractive and automatically thinks he/she is gay or bi.

But it's only a simple attraction, it doesn't mean anything.

[GI_Admiral 2]

Myself personally I really don't ask about it. Never really seen it to be important why someone was gay.

[Andy 60]

"Revenge gayness"? lol, I never heard of that. Maybe I've just lead a sheltered life away from such corruption. *shifty eyes*

[Mara 29]

:roll:

[GI_Admiral 2]

I never really heard of it either lol

[Andy 60]

CONSPIRACY!

[GI_Admiral 2]

propoganda!!!!

[Andy 60]

Hurrah! I mean... boooo!

[Uncle Du 22]

:rofl:

Revenge gayness, that's gotta be about the funniest thing I've heard all week.

[Mara 29]

Being an English major, I have such a way with words.

[Tsl 7]

Are you guys serious?

We had this member here who.......yeah....

[Uncle Du 22]

Huh?

[GI_Admiral 2]

I seriously have not heard of an event like that =/

[Ana 15]

I don't get this whole 'people choose to be that way' argument. Anyone care to elaborate on what that is?

Well, of course you can't get it, you're not gay. Some people just like the pleasure of someone the same sex, than that of an opposite, it's really simple. Some are like that, others aren't. Some just have a natural disposition towards those of the same sex. Whatever. Who gives a sith whether it's a choice or not?

Don't lecture me on what I do or don't get. I don't get the "people choose to be gay" thing because no one's ever explained it to me before. But now that someone sorta has, I get it more, even if I don't think it's true. I don't think being truly gay is a choice. You do have people who do the revenge gayness. You also have people who just experiment for a while, then decide it's not for them. But I don't think of those people as gay. They're expanding their horizons, but when the going gets tough, they're outta there. They're fine rubbing it in their parents' faces, but what happens when someone corners them in an alley, ready to knife them for being queer?

IMO, the true victims are the people who actually are gay. People who can't help the way they are. People for whom carrying on a heterosexual would be a lie, and a betrayal of self. If being gay was a choice, then you wouldn't have people cast of religious communities for being "unnatural". Because if it's a choice, well, they wouldn't have chosen it. If being gay is a choice, people wouldn't make it, only to then undergo electroshock therapy to try to be 'cured'. People wouldn't choose to not be allowed to go to family gatherings because they offend their relatives' sense of morality.

I have two lesbian cousins, one of whom rooms with a gay Mormon whose parents aren't talking to him. I have a friend who got married to his partner in San Francisco when Mayor Gavin Newsom declared it legal. Two of my lesbian friends were runners-up in the end-of-year Senior Polls last year as "Cutest Couple". I have a sister who came out to me when she was twelve years old. I may not be gay, but this is a damn personal issue to me. Don't be flippant.

[Uncle Du 22]

IMO, the true victims are the people who actually are gay. People who can't help the way they are. People for whom carrying on a heterosexual would be a lie, and a betrayal of self. If being gay was a choice, then you wouldn't have people cast of religious communities for being "unnatural". Because if it's a choice, well, they wouldn't have chosen it. If being gay is a choice, people wouldn't make it, only to then undergo electroshock therapy to try to be 'cured'. People wouldn't choose to not be allowed to go to family gatherings because they offend their relatives' sense of morality.

Well, I wasn't being flippant, I was making a point, that there are people who choose to be gay, and no other way. I know this because I know people like that. To say that NO ONE would choose this, because of reasons stated above is just a tad ridiculous. You can't possibly know all the reasoning behind it, and neither do I. I just know that there are people that make that choice for whatever reason. And the biggest reason that people get cast out of the church, is because in their eyes, it is a choice, and these people have chosen "a life of sin". But then, it's the church, and they're not renowned for their outstanding decision making.

And really, anyone that is with a member of the opposite sex is really a gay person. The true definition of the word does not take into account what happens to a person before birth, or what is in their genetic code.

ho?mo?sex?u?al

adj.

Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

I don't know if people think that because I'm in the military, I'm not ever exposed homosexuality, but they couldn't be further from the truth. I know gay people that are in the military, and others that aren't in the military, my circle of friends extends beyond the navy.

And honestly, I don't think it really matters how many gay friends or family members you have, if you don't choose that path or are pre-disposed to it, you really can't understand it. That's like a white person marrying a black person, and then all of a sudden, that white person "knows what it's like to be black". Maybe a crude example, but I think it illustrates my point perfectly. There's really no good way to debate an issue like this until you've walked a mile in the others shoes. And, as most believe, it's not something you can choose to do. We all have our sources, who's to say which is right? I'm not just pulling conclusions out of my ass, I'm just telling it like it's been told to me.`

Edited November 22, 2005 by Du(SW)

[Chickenman 9]

Yeah, seriously. People around the world learned that from a B*WITCHED song!

*Is sad to admit that that's how he learned it*

My sister was a fan. :cry:

[GI_Admiral 2]

Well, I wasn't being flippant, I was making a point, that there are people who choose to be gay, and no other way. I know this because I know people like that. To say that NO ONE would choose this, because of reasons stated above is just a tad ridiculous. You can't possibly know all the reasoning behind it, and neither do I. I just know that there are people that make that choice for whatever reason. And the biggest reason that people get cast out of the church, is because in their eyes, it is a choice, and these people have chosen "a life of sin". But then, it's the church, and they're not renowned for their outstanding decision making.

And really, anyone that is with a member of the opposite sex is really a gay person. The true definition of the word does not take into account what happens to a person before birth, or what is in their genetic code.

ho?mo?sex?u?al

adj.

Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

I don't know if people think that because I'm in the military, I'm not ever exposed homosexuality, but they couldn't be further from the truth. I know gay people that are in the military, and others that aren't in the military, my circle of friends extends beyond the navy.

And honestly, I don't think it really matters how many gay friends or family members you have, if you don't choose that path or are pre-disposed to it, you really can't understand it. That's like a white person marrying a black person, and then all of a sudden, that white person "knows what it's like to be black". Maybe a crude example, but I think it illustrates my point perfectly. There's really no good way to debate an issue like this until you've walked a mile in the others shoes. And, as most believe, it's not something you can choose to do. We all have our sources, who's to say which is right? I'm not just pulling conclusions out of my ass, I'm just telling it like it's been told to me.`

Du, according to you: I don't think it really matters how many gay friends or family members you have, if you don't choose that path or are pre-disposed to it, you really can't understand it.

yet:

I was making a point, that there are people who choose to be gay, and no other way. I know this because I know people like that

So, you cant understand it therefore cannot make a stance, yet, you know that the people choose to be gay and no possible other way because you know people that are? Doesn't that seem rather contradictive?

I just know that there are people that make that choice for whatever reason.

And how do you know that they made the choice. Perhaps they thought they made the choice? Hmm...

And the biggest reason that people get cast out of the church, is because in their eyes, it is a choice, and these people have chosen "a life of sin". But then, it's the church, and they're not renowned for their outstanding decision making.

The church example was one case. It has happened. There are tons of examples of abuse of homosexuals. There's no denying that fact.

And really, anyone that is with a member of the opposite sex is really a gay person. The true definition of the word does not take into account what happens to a person before birth, or what is in their genetic code.

ho?mo?sex?u?al

adj.

Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Wait wait...

Anyone that is with a member of the opposite sex is called heterosexual. A man, that is with a member of the opposite sex (woman). Or a woman, that is with the member of the opposite sex (man)

Further: The definition makes no mention to genetic code, before birth, NOR choice. Just says that their orientation, no matter what the reason, could be from too much hormone/lack of or could be from choice, is to the person of the same sex.

There's really no good way to debate an issue like this until you've walked a mile in the others shoes. And, as most believe, it's not something you can choose to do.

That can be said with every issue Du. Why? Everyone is different. And you do not need to walk a mile in the others shoes. You dont have to be a homosexual to say why people might be homosexual. That's like saying: You have to be a nazi to say why people might be Nazi's. Or, you have to be a Navy officer to say why people might be in the Navy.

We all have our sources, who's to say which is right? I'm not just pulling conclusions out of my ass, I'm just telling it like it's been told to me.

The way you said your first comment sounded pretty flippant.

Well, of course you can't get it

it's really simple.

Whatever.

Who gives a sith

Are just some key phrases. Believe it or not, you don't have to be a politician to get a meaning across from just the words you use. You change the perspective with key words. It just so happened that they key words/phrases you used made it sound pretty rude, borderline insulting (With the "Of course you cant get it" yet "its really simple")

Edited November 22, 2005 by GI_Admiral

[Andy 60]

Okay, when I said debate I didn't mean rip eachother to shreds...

[GI_Admiral 2]

I'm not ripping him to shreds lol juts pointing out flaws I found in his argument :angel: