Debate: Gun Control

[TheUnknown 39]

The new discussion topic is gun control. This topic has been inspired by the Virginia Tech situation.

I think this incident is a sign that the mantra of the gun nuts in America to "enforce the gun laws we already have" is bullsith. He bought the damn guns legally. And I've heard the NRA fought a proposed law to ban the multi-round clips he used. I inherited guns from my father and I believe the Second Amendment is just as much a part of the Constitution as the First, Fourteenth, etc., but people don't have a right or even a need for high capacity ammunition or high powered guns and those with histories of violence and those found to be dangerously unstable SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS.

Edited April 21, 2007 by TheUnknown

[Chickenman 9]

I agree with Du about being desensitized to this kind of thing. I mean, I was eight and a half when Columbine happened, so I entered high school middle and high school knowing they were a reality. I honestly haven't been paying all that much attention to this one. Or any of them, really. As long as there is humanity, there will be humans killing each other. We can try to cut down that number of needless deaths, but a world without violence is, at best, a dream.

As for "Right To Bear Arms," until very recently I was all for it, but now I'm having second doubts. Sure, we should be able to protect ourselves but

a) There are other ways to protect yourself

and

b) You don't need a sniper rifle or an automatic weapon to do so.

The Second Amendment: "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

It can be argued that it doesn't really say people can own a gun and use it for personal use. It does say that a well regulated militia needs to. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, but I'm kinda staring to lean towards keeping guns in the hands of the military and the police, and no one else.

I mean, I've gone skeet shooting with a shotgun before, and its pretty fun. Hunting probably is even more so. But does that moment of fun make up for all the senseless deaths that guns have caused over the years? I don't ewoking think so.

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

i think there are certain weapons that should be regulated to law enforcement officials and the military, but hunting rifles and such, no. i don't personally enjoy that kind of thing, but i know folks who do.

[Chickenman 9]

Yeah. I just don't see the point in the NRA wanting to keep automatic weapons the street.

ewoking stupid.

[Princess 35]

Yup. Let's limit everyone to a shotgun unless they're police or military.

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

me likey that idea. there's just no reason for civilians to have automatics.

[Chickenman 9]

Good luck sneaking that one by the NRA. :p

[Drake 53]

Make eveyone who wants a gun go in for proficiency training and a psychological examination. If they're messed in the head, they can't buy a gun. Firearms need to be strictly liscensed and enforced. It's worked well for Canada. Our police officers don't even resort to their firearms until all other uses of force are ruled out or if they feel their lives are in danger. Even after they draw their firearm, they have to write up a report, afterwards, on why it was needed to draw their weapon. Non-lethal uses of force are more effective than going in like a cowboy. Batons, pepper spray and TASERs work brilliantly and no one dies.

[Chickenman 9]

And I imagine tasers are probably even more fun

So apparently, a Columbine survivor goes to VTech, and was on Campus during the shooting. She's now survived two school shootings.

[TheUnknown 39]

You don't need a sniper rifle or an automatic weapon to do so.

Exactly...or weapons that blow huge holes in things. And the line "if you ban them, then only criminals will have them." Oh, bullsith! If they're legal, they will be a) Easier to find and b) cheaper and because of this, there will be more of them.

It can be argued that it doesn't really say people can own a gun and use it for personal use. It does say that a well regulated militia needs to. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, but I'm kinda staring to lean towards keeping guns in the hands of the military and the police, and no one else.

Well, I believe we should interpret the Constitution to allow the most freedoms possible while protecting society. It's a maximize your benefits kind of thing. So, if you start strictly interpreting the Second Amendment, you get interpretations that there is no right to privacy, that "Separation of Church and State" only means Congress cannot establish a state religion, etc. It's a very slippery slope.

Make eveyone who wants a gun go in for proficiency training and a psychological examination.

Yep, and a criminal background check. If you don't know how to use a gun or are found to be a danger to others or have been so, then you shouldn't have a gun. And you should have to wait. A waiting period would hopefully cut down on crimes of passion with guns.

Additionally, I keep hearing crap like "If everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened." Oh, please. If everyone had a gun, you would have more shootings, although admittedly not to the point we have now. You would have a lot more spur of the moment things, ie. student gets a bad grade and shoots teacher.

[Chickenman 9]

It can be argued that it doesn't really say people can own a gun and use it for personal use. It does say that a well regulated militia needs to. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, but I'm kinda staring to lean towards keeping guns in the hands of the military and the police, and no one else.

Well, I believe we should interpret the Constitution to allow the most freedoms possible while protecting society. It's a maximize your benefits kind of thing. So, if you start strictly interpreting the Second Amendment, you get interpretations that there is no right to privacy, that "Separation of Church and State" only means Congress cannot establish a state religion, etc. It's a very slippery slope.

I believe the same thing, about interpretation. But do guns protect society? Or ruin it?

[Princess 35]

Honestly, I'm so sick of the whole "If everyone had guns" bit and the people that say that they have a constitutional right to bear arms. Only if you're in the militia. *thinks about it for a second*

*runs scared from the Michigan Militia*

[Drake 53]

And the militia would need to be fully accountable to the police. The next thing we need is a bunch of yahoos forming their own militia, without any police control, and taking over a town or something.

[Ayingel 24]

*pictures all the yahoo smileys with guns*

*shivers*

[Drake 53]

:snipe: :elfrifle:

:2gun:

Disturbing.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Drake

[Ayingel 24]

*gets hit by a stray bullet*

*dies*

[Bad furday 57]

*sniffcry*

Just watch... Charleton Heston will now say that Beloved shouldn't have been standing so close. :p

[Ayingel 24]

why couldn't you have taken the bullet for me?

*invades furday's body and makes him walk towards the gunfire

[Andy 60]

Off topic already?

Anyways, over here there is a general feeling of "will they ever learn?"

Our worst school shooting was in 1996 when a crazy guy went into a primary school and killed 16 kids and a teacher, then himself.

It lead to an almost complete ban on handguns in the UK. There's really not a lot of weapons you can get away with owning without having a good excuse over here... Even the police don't normally carry guns.

I undertsand it's part of the culture over there... But is it really worth holding onto such a tradition when tragedies like this happen all too often?

Hmm.

[Princess 35]

It's not my fault! The Michigan Militia really is scary!

http://www.michiganmilitia.com/

[Andy 60]

:eek:

Because a well-armed citizenry is the best Homeland Security, and can better deter crime, invasion, terrorism, or tyranny...

Do these peopele all have SAMs and Anti-tank weapons? Cos I'm pretty sure that if anyone was going to invade the US they'd have a little bit of an air-raid first before sending in tanks and artillery... Probably because of the very reason that most of the public has guns :p

[Chickenman 9]

It lead to an almost complete ban on handguns in the UK. There's really not a lot of weapons you can get away with owning without having a good excuse over here... Even the police don't normally carry guns.

Hence the Robin Williams joke: In Britain, the criminals don't have guns, and the cops don't have guns, so the cops say "Stop!...or I'll say 'stop' again!"

[Andy 60]

It lead to an almost complete ban on handguns in the UK. There's really not a lot of weapons you can get away with owning without having a good excuse over here... Even the police don't normally carry guns.

Hence the Robin Williams joke: In Britain, the criminals don't have guns, and the cops don't have guns, so the cops say "Stop!...or I'll say 'stop' again!"

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that.

[Chickenman 9]

Rob a bank and we'll see.

[Ender 8]

I'll be the getaway driver!