Your Personal Continuity

[Chickenman 9]

"Discontinuity - Amongst fans, Discontinuity is the act of mentally writing out certain events in a show's continuity which doesn't sit well, no matter if it's a single episode, a season-length arc, or even an entire series. If a plot or ending rubs one the wrong way severely enough, fandom can just decide that the offending events never happened. On the series level, events may fall under Discontinuity because the show is perceived to suck at that point. Events also get "discontinued" for particularly screwing up the characters or setting, and a show that starts to suck will end up screwing things up eventually anyway." -TVtropes.org

So, for your personal interpretation of Star Wars continuity, what have you mentally written out or changed?

For me, and just off the top of my head:

Old Republic Era:

KOTOR II's cut content has been restored. The exile visited the droid planet of M4-78. HK-47 and his army of HK-51s epically took on the army of HK-50s, and it was awesome. With all of that cut content restored, and when reexaming the game, it turns out KOTOR II was Matthew Stoverish in it's complexity and awesomeitude.

The archaic society and technology of the Tales of the Jedi comic series, and the incredibly advanced (even by prequel standards) society and technology of the KOTOR games were exaggerated. There's no way there would be that huge an increase in technology in only forty years. The Tales of the Jedi series' technology was more advanced than it appears in the comics, and the technology in KOTOR was much much less so. I do this mostly because I love the whole ancient vs futuristic look is so cool, and KOTOR shouldn't look as prequely as it does. This brings up another idea I like to entertain, that has absolutely no basis in canon. Between KOTOR and the prequels, there must have been a dark age or two. Just a period where milleniums of knowledge was lost and very little progress was made. After all, continuity goes back at least 25,000 BBY. If you had 25,000 years of uninterrupted spacehe technology should be even more advanced and alien to us than it actually is. Perhaps there was a dark age ending just a couple hundred years before 1,000, the last sighting of the Sith. This makes Palpy's line in AOTC about the Republic lasting 1,000 years make more sense. The Republic as people know it. There was a Republic before then, but it hardly resembled the one we all know and love. Anyway, don't worry about it. That's a pet theory of mine that doesn't matter to the topic at hand.

Rise of the Empire Era:

Battle droids aren't retarded. They're exactly what their name would imply. They are fearsome, efficient combat models. At the same time, clones aren't simply cannon fodder. They are the clones of Jango Fett, and act like it. Clone Commandos and ARC troopers are still the best of the best, but each clone is like Jango in more than just appearance. That's why, even though the CIS can churn out another million droids each day, a million droids is nothing against a million Jango Fetts.

The original Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon series is in continuity, but grossly exaggerated. Stuff like Mace Windu defeating an entire droid army by himself. And, you know. Other things.

The new CGI series is out. Before it came along, the Clone Wars had been neatly categorized so that you could tell, to the month, and sometimes to the day when a specific mission or battle happened. It was a nice little thing for Lucasbooks and Darkhorse and the various publishers to do for losers like me. The stories were a mature take on the events, showing the costs and horrors of war. Then we got to see Anakin playing leapfrog on a series of STAPs, all as part of a race to the top of the hill with his new padawan, who is an even worse character than Jar-Jar. While I'd take the silliness with a grain of salt, just like in the previous cartoon, the stories themselves completely ignore all previous continuity, to the point where those years of comics, video games and books might as well have not even happened. According to Lucasfilm, cartoon canon is higher than the rest of the EU, and since those other maturely written stories can't possibly fit into this new canon, they've been retconned out of existence. Instead of discovering what happens when scores of padawans start to lose scores of their masters in battle, instead of watching Jedi question the ethics of using the clones in battle, instead of seeing the way Palpy uses the war to increase his power, instead of watching the death toll climb, lives and ecosystems of entire planets lost forever, and the fraying of the Jedi Order...we get Ashsoka giggling and cracking stupid jokes while playingacting in a battlefield. But hey, I begged my parents for Star Wars toys much more when I was 10 than now that I'm 20, so I guess they're going after the right demographic. Although, there was a point in my life where I asked for a truckload more Batman toys, and I'd like to think that's partly because the Batman Animated Series didn't talk down to me like the CGI series talks down to today's fans.

Rebellion Era:

Han. Shot. First.

The Jedi Prince series, the one with Palpy's son. And Palpy's son's son. And a hidden city of droids living underneath Yavin IV THE WHOLE TIEM! And the New Republic establishing a major base on Dagobah. It's out.

The Ewoks movies and cartoon series never happened.

The Marvel Star Wars comics are for the most part still in continuity, but some of the more fantastic/silly details and some of the single issues never happened.

New Republic Era:

The Dark Empire comics happened (if only because they're sort of important, but aren't thought about too often. Because thinking about them too much hurts.

Crystal Star happened (if only because of its link to Jedi Outcast). But Waru isn't from another dimension and there's no Force-sensitive Hutt.

New Jedi Order:

S'all good.

Legacy:

We'll see what happens when I catch up. I hear bad things. Very bad things.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Chickenman

[James the Defender 7]

I would agree with everything you said, even though there are some things there I didn't read. But I've heard about them.

I'm not too crazy about comics in general. The comics are way ahead of the books. We're in the Legacy era with the books and the comics already have the Fel Empire firmly established and Luke's descendants, etc. So we know in the FotJ series: Jag survives, as does Ben, sometime in the FotJ series or afterward Ben has a child. I would write out the comics.

I hated the Dark Nest series. It was idiotic how they took the nineteen book NJO series and what it established and completely trashed it in three books. I would make sure Christie Golden never wrote a Star Wars book and change the author from the Legacy Series from Karen Traviss to someone else, if only because she did all the stuff with the Mandolorians and then Lucasbooks trashed all her ideas. I'd save her anguish and save us the same.

As for the NJO itself. Just a few author changes, like Walter Jon Williams and whomever wrote Balance Point.

I think that's it.

[Chickenman 9]

Silly me, in the original post, I was so concerned with tracking down individual examples that I forgot my major gripe.

I hate hate HATE when a video game sets a level on a familiar planet for no reason other than that the fans will recognize it. Tattooine gets the worst of it. In the first level of the Rogue Squadron game, you have probe droids attacking moisture farms before a squadron of TIE bombers bombs Mos Eisley. Why? Because the Empire is evul!!!! Forget that Tattooine has no strategic advantage nor has done nothing to provoke the bombing (even less than the nothing you normally have to do to provoke an Imperial bombing). There's no reason for it, other than that fans will recognize the location. Every other game has an obligatory Tattooine mission or even battle, even though the planet is supposed to be a backwater world at the ass end of space. In a later Rogue Squadron game, you have a Battle of Bakura a couple months (weeks?) before the Battle of Endor, even though during The Truce at Bakura, no one, not even Wedge Antillest, commander of Rogue Squadron, had ever heard of Bakura. Another mission takes place in orbit above Geonosis, and Wedge lands his X-Wing on the surface, hops into a Jedi Starfighter just left there from the Clone Wars, and takes it up into space and continues the mission. And on and on. The Battlefront games and RTS games like Galactic Battlegrounds and Empire at War are the worst at this. Because these games rely on huge battles, you get to wage war in places where it doesn't make sense to. According to these games you have a battle between the Empire and a huge rebel base raging on (surprise) Tattooine, hell, inside Mos Eisley while Han and Luke were boarding the Falcon during ANH. Also, you have the Empire sending an army down onto Yavin IV before and during the space battle, even though they'd be killed as soon as the Death Star came round the bend (which, actually, could be a great way to showcase Tarkin's ruthlessness, but nothing else in canon has ever or will ever support it). You have a mission where the Rebel Alliance lands and fights on Wayland to steal some critical Imperial information, even though Wayland is one of Palpy's most closely guarded secrets. There are millions of inhabited worlds out there, but we keep seeing the same ones over and over because the production teams are lazy. Granted, putting together a video game is hardly an easy task. You could easily just write these levels out as apocrypha.

Unfortunately, fans like wookieepedia take each and every level as canon and then try to justify it, even when the level's premise errs on the ridiculous side. That's the part that I actually hate, not the levels themselves.

Oh, and back to the Clone Wars series, I only recently learned about the whole Mandalorians as pacifists thing. Kill it with fire.

I would agree with everything you said, even though there are some things there I didn't read. But I've heard about them.

I'm not too crazy about comics in general. The comics are way ahead of the books. We're in the Legacy era with the books and the comics already have the Fel Empire firmly established and Luke's descendants, etc. So we know in the FotJ series: Jag survives, as does Ben, sometime in the FotJ series or afterward Ben has a child. I would write out the comics.

I hated the Dark Nest series. It was idiotic how they took the nineteen book NJO series and what it established and completely trashed it in three books. I would make sure Christie Golden never wrote a Star Wars book and change the author from the Legacy Series from Karen Traviss to someone else, if only because she did all the stuff with the Mandolorians and then Lucasbooks trashed all her ideas. I'd save her anguish and save us the same.

As for the NJO itself. Just a few author changes, like Walter Jon Williams and whomever wrote Balance Point.

I think that's it.

Well, I'm a stalwart defender of comics, so I'd have to disagree with you there. At it's best, comics are a beautiful wedding between literature and art (like, art art. Illustrations). The Watchmen is regularly placed among lists of the top 100 novels of the 20th century. Even on the mainstream superhero side, Batman: Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth is a beautiful, gothic masterpiece, from the painted, disjointed imagery to the incredibly deep writing calling into question psychology and mythology in a way that it's awesomeness is only increased the more and more you examine it. Batman: The Long Halloween is probably one of the best examples I can think of where the art truly enhances the story instead of just portraying it. It's an excellent detective story (Batman meets The Godfather, really), and every single panel holds a clue or hidden meaning. If the collaboration between artist and writer were like that more often...I can't imagine. Hell, Joe Kelly's 33 issue run on Deadpool portrays maybe the finest and most tragic hero arc I've ever come across in any media. And there's greatness galore if you look at the indie comics and standalone graphic novels, which veer away from the superhero thing. Comics get an incredibly bad rap as sub-literature, and it's not entirely undeserved. When you have to churn out 12 or 13 issues a year and those issues are only a little more than 20 pages long, you don't always get the depth you'd like. The industry also gets a bad rap for having to keep the status quo alive, so you have heroes dying, but never ACTUALLY dying, which eliminates all the danger unless you're the hero's girlfriend. Then you're going to get stuffed in the refrigerator. Then there are the big crossover events and yada yada yada. Point is, there's a lot I'd change about the industry, but as a form of media it does not get the credit it deserves.

Onto the actual Legacy comics, I was incredibly mad at the announcement, too. I judged immediately, about how nothing else in the novels would matter or anything. And I was wrong. They're by the same creative team that did most of the mature Clone Wars comics I was talking about. And they're excellent. They're far enough away from main events that you really have a whole new way of looking at the galaxy, without interfering with, and they actually stick quite close to, canon.

And Troy Denning seriously needs to stop remaking the EU in his image.

I've only read the first three and a half books of the Legacy series, but the vibe I'm getting on all of the post-NJO books is that they're just cynical and dark for the sake of being dark. More or less accurate (spoilers-free, of course)?

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

I think the problem is that the NJO was so well-written (mostly) and so revolutionary, it's really hard to be on par with it much less top it. I've been extremely disappointed in the post-NJO books.

Legacy was just a rehash of the prequels except with Jacen instead of Anakin

. Fate of the Jedi started with a wonderful concept, but I feel like the authors aren't doing it justice. I don't necessarily think it's the authors' faults that the series isn't living up to its full potential, though. Someone higher up the food chain is making some craptastic decisions.

[James the Defender 7]

Well, I'm a stalwart defender of comics, so I'd have to disagree with you there.

And Troy Denning seriously needs to stop remaking the EU in his image.

I've only read the first three and a half books of the Legacy series, but the vibe I'm getting on all of the post-NJO books is that they're just cynical and dark for the sake of being dark. More or less accurate (spoilers-free, of course)?

True about Denning and correct about LotJ.

And about the comics: I may not like them too much, but i'm not saying there shouldn't be SW comics. I'm just saying that as far as moving forward into the future, they should be on pace with each other. Comics establish something, book build off them. books establish something, comics build off them, etc, etc... There's not much tension for me in the FotJ series because I know one of my favorite characters (Jag) is going to survive. I know Ben will survive. All the tension is just leaked out for me, that's all. I'm not dissing the comics--I guess I jumped the gun in my earlier comment--I'm just saying the books and comics should be more balanced, that's all.

Edited June 16, 2010 by James the Defender

[k.a.mara 13]

Nice topic Peeps, but for your own health, take a deep breath and have a slice of pizza....vader seems to be enjoying his!

Your point about continuity is a very good one. I often feel that those at lucas films/books don't keep a better eye on what's actually going on. I sometimes feel they'd be better off letting fans like all of us run the candy store. (hey, there's a thought! have people who actually follow the order of things and come up with new plot lines instead of casting writers to just jot down what they percieve what's going on in the sw universe)

As for comics, I think they have a good spot and shouldn't be dispelled. They've taken on new ideas and have come up with some pretty good things. Again, I just wish people would try and run things in better order with the previous written materials.

As for the njo and the new series, I haven't read everything, so I really can't trash them....at least not entirely. Some of the stuff I've read is hit or miss, guess that will happen depending on the writer/writers and the direction. (tossing it back on lucas's people)

I do watch the animated series (still have kids at home) I find it has good things and bad. I'm not crazy on how they've managed to change things what with Anakin being a master with a padawan and all. (did I miss that part in eps 3? I thought that's why he was soo pissed off- because he was granted permission to be on the council but not the rank of a master??? huh, must have took a potty break at that part and missed his promo )

Anyways, the animated series and the mando's being passifists, it could have started that way. Problem is, I've always read things pointing to the fact that they were a warring type race. Maybe they need a storyline to clarify things better

As for "disclaiming" or writing things out of continuity because a person (writer etc.) doesn't like what was previously recorded isn't good. I'm sure everyone here can talk about something in some of these storylines that really stunk and would love to see them just disappear *poof*

Unfortunately, that isn't the right thing. Some of these things are like a history in this particular universe it's best to roll with them than to write them out. Weave them through the next level like taking the "emperor reborn" there's a topic some people would love to have fall off the face of the planet, but I actually think it lead to a whole list of possibilities. Personally, I haven't cared for how the whole jacen thing was written, I think they could have wrote it a lot better than they did. I think it was actually pretty sloppy. They should have waited another generation or something. To use Jacen as a sith lord was too... well, obvious. It should have been during Ben's time as an adult jedi, or perhaps the offspring of Jaina. (like I said, I haven't read all the books, so correct me if I'm wrong)Granted, I've thought Jacen was a sniffling, whinny baby, he did have some potential, too bad no one took the reins and ran with him.

Edited June 7, 2011 by beeurd

[k.a.mara 13]

sorry chickenman....looks like I killed your thread! :(

[Radioactive Isotope 29]

I'm not crazy on how they've managed to change things what with Anakin being a master with a padawan and all. (did I miss that part in eps 3? I thought that's why he was soo pissed off- because he was granted permission to be on the council but not the rank of a master??? huh, must have took a potty break at that part and missed his promo )

This got me thinking (uh oh, I know). The only way Ashoka survives the Clone War is if she leaves the Jedi. Because if she becomes a Knight, Anakin would be a Master. That's established cannon from Lucas himself (although one wonders if he will remember it...). So either she needs to die (which is doubtful considering it's a kids' show and she's really popular) she leaves on her own terms (which from what I know of the character seems unlikely), or she gets kicked out.

I personally ignore the TV series because it sucks and I can't stand Ashoka. So all that never happens in my continuity.

[Ana 15]

*waves hand* There is no TV series. And the post-NJO didn't really happen anything like the books.

[Anakin Solo - Potted Plant 0]

For me basically anything that happened from the NJO and forward from then I am pretending never happened. The NJO was such a disaster to me, and the books after it I find to be completely horrendous. I am just pretending it was all a bad dream.

[CorSec 5]

My own continuity pretends the prequels were written by someone competent.

[Anakin Solo - Potted Plant 0]

My own continuity pretends the prequels were written by someone competent.

Haha, very nice.